As Carlos-Manuel Vesga explains, working on Vince Gilligan’s Apple TV hit Pluribus is more than just a career milestone, it’s a genuinely fulfilling role for a committed artist, landing him a first-time Emmy nomination for Supporting Actor in a Drama. Playing the hive-hating and brave Manousos Oviedo, Vesga’s scenes are largely without scene partners, presenting unique and fun challenges for the actor as he built his character. He was kind enough to sit down with Screen Speck and talk to us about bringing his character to life, from that pilgrimage of suffering through the Darién Gap, to speculating how Manousos might react to fellow immune survivors Mr. Diabaté (Samba Schutte) and Laxmi (Menik Gooneratne). The following interview is available through the embedded audio, and also transcribed in full below.
Screen Speck: Thank you so much for talking with Screen Speck today about this amazing first season of Pluribus, and congratulations on the amazing reception it has had.
Carlos-Manuel Vesga: Oh, thank you. It’s a pleasure for me to be speaking here with you, and the nominations for the show and mine, it’s just beyond, beyond anything that I could have dreamt of, you know? I think, in my case, my particular nomination, really [it’s] just beyond anything any Colombian actor could have hoped for and dreamed about. It goes against the laws of physics, let’s put it that way.
Screen Speck: You have been on this press run for quite a long time now. I’m curious, when you talk to either journalists or fans who really like the show, has there been anything interesting or unexpected in your interactions with them?
Vesga: See, I think something that’s very interesting about Pluribus is that it leaves people with their own conversations, with their own reflections on existence, and happiness, and loss and grief and many other things. It’s really interesting that if you talk to 10 people about Pluribus, you’ll get 10 different takes on the show, from it’s a show about grieving, it’s a show about communism, it’s a show about capitalism, it’s a show about happiness, it’s a show about AI. At the beginning it was unexpected to talk to fans or just friends and see how the show would affect them and confront them about their own lives. But as time went by it actually became the rule that I would speak about the show with somebody — a journalist or a friend or just a fan — and they would always have something very personal to say about the show. Like, “The show for me meant this or that.” And that doesn’t happen. That’s very unusual for the audiovisual. It’s not unusual for art. In the realm of art that’s what art is supposed to do, but it’s unexpected in the realm of entertainment. And I think, when I think of Pluribus, I think of something that actually [transcends] the realm of art.
Screen Speck: Yeah, I have found that it’s almost like the Hive itself, it’s a perfect projection for philosophical musings or feelings about what’s going on currently in the world.
Vesga: Oh my god, yeah. I don’t know. Vince has… It’s definitely visionary. It’s the feeling that I got when I saw, for the first time I watched Network. Do you remember that film?
Screen Speck: I love Network, yes.
Vesga: And when I watched it, I was like, “Wait a minute, this is a film from the ’70s, and these people are such visionaries of what’s going to happen in the future.” And that’s the feeling I get with Vince and his idea. Because it’s very current. I think it’s very specific to the times that we live in. But it’s also to do with existential matters that are timeless. I was telling Vince that with this show, I feel like my role as an artist in society has been fulfilled.
Screen Speck: That’s beautiful.
Vesga: You know, ’cause it’s different. I have nothing against entertainment. I think it’s really nice, and I love participating in projects that are pure entertainment. But to be a part of a show that really gravitates toward art, in that art presents different perspectives for the audiences so that they can rethink their own existences, that is such a privilege. I have to say, I’m such a privileged guy to be a part of the show.
Screen Speck: I want to go back a bit to the very beginning. I also interviewed Sharon Bialy, and she told me that one of the reasons why they liked you for this role is that you instinctively understood the humor in Vince’s writing. So I wanted to know from your perspective, did the humor come pretty immediately to you? Did it jump off the page, or is that something that you felt like you found over the course of the audition process?
Vesga: Well, I have to say that the writing and Vince’s building of the character made it very easy for the comedy to appear because Manousos is a very serious man, and a serious person is the ideal ground for comedy to happen. You know, if you have someone who’s very rigid, it’s easier to create problems for them. And problems about their interactions with other people. It’s very easy. It’s a very fertile ground for comedy. It was my instinct to approach Manousos as serious as I could be, not to chase the comedy really. I was actually playing a drama, all the time. I was playing a drama and in a very serious situation. And I think I have to give credit to the writing and to the directors that me doing it in that way, so serious and dramatic, allowed for comedy to come up. And I think that’s the way Rhea [Seehorn] portrays Carol as well.
Screen Speck: Yeah, that’s what’s funny about their interactions, because they are so similar in a lot of ways, that those similarities start to butt heads a bit.
Vesga: Absolutely. And see, the clever thing for me is that because they disagree, because they butt heads, they contrast. There’s a contrast between them and The Others. The Others have just one communal thought, and everything works out. But what makes humans human is that we disagree, that we bicker, that we debate, that we are not on the same page with each other. And so you are reminded in the show, you are reminded these two are full humans. That’s why they bicker and they butt heads. And the others are not full humans. They have bodies and they seem to be human, but the human quality of the soul is not there. It’s another layer that you can read in the show. It’s amazing.
Screen Speck: One of the aspects of Vince’s writing that’s always been my favorite is that he really peppers in character details that hint at backstory. One of my favorite details with regard to Manousos is getting that peek into his relationship with his mother. I wanted to ask if you have any speculations as to why the hive would send her to him, given that their relationship as it comes off on screen seems to be a bit more complicated than it does exude warmth.
Vesga: Sadly, I haven’t been told anything about Manousos’ relationship with his mom. But I thought when I read it, when we were playing it, I thought, “Man, these people [the writers] are really, really talented and clever.” Because the way that he can tell that that’s not his mom is not that she’s mean, but actually a complete opposite, that she’s too sweet, and that’s how he knows that that’s not his mom. I thought, “This is, this is genius. This is absolutely great.” And also, I have to give a shout-out to Soledad [Campos], the actress who played the mom, because she’s very sweet, but she’s also eerily sweet. She’s scary in a very sort of like-
Screen Speck: It’s very much like children in a horror movie, you know what I mean? It’s like the twisted innocence of it or something.
Vesga: Yes! A bit off. I thought she was terrific. And it came through that there’s something really wrong about Manousos’ relationship with his mom. I’ve manifested that to the writers and to Vince that I want to know more about that relationship. Yeah, definitely.
Screen Speck: That is one of the aspects of Manousos’ character that I’m hoping to get a little bit more of.
Vesga: Oh, me too. And it was so unexpected, right? When he says that, when he says, “You know, don’t call me son, ’cause you’re not my mother. My mother was a bitch.” That’s… What? What?
Screen Speck: That’s so funny.
Vesga: That is genius. I love that.
Screen Speck: So another detail that interested me about Manousos is that he has that HAM radio, and even what looks like documented lists regarding radio waves on his desk. I’m curious if you considered whether or not Manousos had a particular affinity for radios or analog objects, and what that might signal about either a personal desire for connection, or if he maybe he just has this very like, disaster-preparedness kind of mentality.
Vesga: I love everything you just said. I need to address it point by point. This is something that I’m just speculating on, ‘cause I haven’t spoken about it with Vince and the writers or the directors. For me, it’s obvious that he’s had some kind of education. He knows at least the basics of science because he’s not only interested in a radio, but you see that he has a scientific mind to him. There’s method to the way that he approaches whatever he embarks on. So I would say that he’s probably had some sort of education and I’ve been thinking that he probably has the mind of an engineer. You know, they are very curious. He’s the kind of person that would take something apart just to see the insides of a machine or something. And then they take pleasure in putting it together again. I think that he’s that kind of person. You know, he loves machines, he loves his car. It’s this sort of little gem that he keeps, the small car in such beautiful state. I think he is the kind of person who is frugal. It would seem to me that he’s very frugal. So if you buy a television and it’s still working, you don’t throw it away. If it still works, you don’t throw it away. It doesn’t matter if there’s a new thinner model. No, my television still works so I’m gonna keep it. He keeps stuff because it works. And I think it speaks a lot, at least to me, I think it says that he has lost a lot in life. This guy knows about loss, so he takes care of things. He takes care of the tools that he uses, the machines that he works with, the clothes that he wears. I’m sure this guy knows that you can lose everything from one day to the next.
Screen Speck: Yeah, and I know that you’ve talked a lot about him being an immigrant in Paraguay. I think there’s a connection to that as well, like the idea of uprooting and perhaps losing your home, losing your—
Vesga: Identity!
Screen Speck: Yeah, your possessions, your identity.
Vesga: Yeah, yeah. This guy… I mean, you can see that this guy doesn’t panic. You can see that this guy has gone through hard times and he knows that life can be tough, that [it] can be hard. So he doesn’t panic, he just sits down and takes a stand against whatever is happening and then he starts working. You know? He’s not panicking about running out of food. He just tries to solve it. And if he finds dog food, well, that’s, you know, that’s what I’m gonna have. But he seems to be that kind of person that doesn’t panic, which is great at the very end [of] the finale when he says, “What, what’s this?” And she goes, “It’s an atom bomb.” And I think that’s the one time that you see Manousos at a loss. Like you can see that in his eyes. He goes, “Wait, what? I don’t know what to do with this. Like, what? This is maybe too much.”
Screw Speck: Yeah, you never really see him rattled. And I wouldn’t say that that quite rattled him, but it’s the first time you see him almost confused or something.
Vesga: Yes! Right? He seems like, “Okay, um, I was stuck against a tree with like horrible thorns coming off it, but now what I have to do is cauterize the wound. And that’s it, so I’m gonna do it. You know, it’s gonna be painful.” It’s the atom bomb that really [makes him go] “Wait, what?”
Screen Speck: I was wondering if there was a particular prop or a piece of clothing — anything physically associated with the character — that most helped you to get inside his head.
Vesga: Oh, I mean the work that the art department, props, and costumes did was magnificent I have to say. And they were very thorough and meticulous in building the character. So you have small things that actually I don’t think were shown in the show, they got a keychain for the car with the Colombian flag on it. And we never got to see it, but I had it. In the office at the storage facility, only if you look closely, if you’re really paying attention, on the left-hand side of the screen you’ll see in the back behind the desk, across the room in the other corner, you’ll see a box, and it’s painted with the Colombian flag and that’s because they built a game that is kind of like throwing the horseshoe. It’s called frog in Colombia and if you go to the equivalent of a pub in Colombia, most likely they’re gonna have that game. So they built it and they put it in the office. I remember walking in for the first time on set and realizing that they had it. I mean, those guys did a really good job at building the whole Manousos universe.
Also, there’s a Holy Virgin image hanging from the rear view mirror in the car and they were talking to me about it and I said, “It has to be a certain Holy Virgin that is the patron of truckers.” And people who drive in Colombia. And they actually got the actual image of that Holy Virgin for him.
Screen Speck: Wow.
Vesga: And that is also something I don’t know if it, I don’t know if it’s my mind that goes there, but I’m not a religious person, but I was brought up as a Catholic. And there’s something about enduring pain for the Catholic mind that sort of purifies it, purifies the being. If you go through pain, if you endure the pain, you’ll get to a better place. So I’ve been wondering about how he approaches pain, physical pain, in his journey, and there’s something about it. I don’t know if he’s a religious man. I remember he leaves the car, he sort of caresses the image of the Virgin, but that might be because it was given to him by his dad or he has some emotional attachment to that image. But there is something about martyrdom with Catholics. You know, there’s something about enduring pain and pulling through which defines Manousos, definitely.
Screen Speck: There’s a nobility to the suffering.
Vesga: Yes, yes. And also, I mean, the whole walking through the Darién Gap, it reminds you of the Santiago road that pilgrims used to walk in the Middle Ages. Still do. They walk the road with their rosary beads and they recite and they repeat those things like a mantra, and Manousos has a mantra when he’s walking through the Darién Gap. So there’s a lot of parallels that you can establish.
Screen Speck: One of my favorite aspects of Pluribus is how multilingual it is. Manousos doesn’t speak a ton of English in season one. But I’ve always been curious for actors that do play characters in multiple languages, is there anything different about your process when you’re speaking in English versus when you speak in Spanish?
Vesga: You know what’s tricky and I found out in Pluribus… I would get to set and everyone speaks English, so I’m speaking English with them. And then I would do a scene by himself with no lines and something unexpected would happen, that my intuition would be to say something, for Manousos to say something. And I would say it in English because my chip in my head, the English chip was working. And I had to work on switching it off for the performance because it takes, I don’t know, a fraction of a second, but you have to do the switching from your mind to stop thinking in English and then go back to Spanish. For me it was a beautiful thing that what happens to Manousos and the way he learns English, I have a personal connection to that because my grandfather, he came to the US in the first half of the 20th century. He went to Boston to study medicine from Colombia. And when he traveled, he was sure that he spoke English. He had studied English in Colombia. But once he got to Boston he realized that he didn’t understand a word in the street. You know, people would speak a completely different, very colloquial English that he didn’t understand. So what he did was he would go to the same movie theater and watch the same movie over and over and over so he could pick up the way people talked in the streets. So, it was Vince who first told me about the cassette tapes that Manousos listens to in the car, and straight away I was like, “Oh my God, that’s my grandfather. That’s amazing that I’m repeating that sort of story.”
Screen Speck: So what I love about the immune characters is that for me, as I read it, each one almost embodies a different reaction to change, almost like the stages of grief. Manousos has been limited in his interactions with other characters so far, but I’m curious if you think that there would be anything interesting or notable about how he would interact with Diabaté or Laxmi —
Vesga: Ooh.
Screen Speck: Given how Diabaté embodies indulgence, but Laxmi embodies denial.
Vesga: I’ve wondered so much about the moment when Manousos meets Diabaté and how would that go, ’cause I think Manousos would find it, let’s say, questionable. To be mild.
Screen Speck: Yeah!
Vesga: To be mild. Diabaté’s behavior….I see Manousos as being this sort of dignified, principled man. What Diabate is doing with those models I think Manousos would have an opinion about. But we never know. He might be convinced to, you know, join the hot tub. You know, you never know!
Screen Speck: [laughs] I find that extremely hard to believe, but we’ll, we’ll see.
Vesga: It’d be weird!
Screen Speck: We’ll see what Vince has in store for season two.
Vesga: It’d be weird that Manousos would join the hot tub, but you never know. You never know. But also, I think Diabaté’s argument, his points that he makes, some of them make sense, I have to say. Some of them make sense. Not all of them, but when, for instance, when he talks about racism, not having any racism, I’m sure that’s something that Manousos relates to, being a Latin American and a brown-skinned person. He knows about segregation, and he knows about racism. Latin American countries are very racist. People would not expect it, but there’s a lot of racism in Colombia, and there’s a lot of racism in Latin America in general. So I know Manousos can relate to that perspective on what’s happened. And maybe, maybe he’ll dig it. Maybe he’ll be like, “You know what? That part is good. That part works.”
You never know. With Laxmi, I love that character. Ugh, I love that character. I can’t wait to see more of her. With Laxmi, I think it would be more of a conversation, because if she’s in denial, it’s a matter of the way you invite her to see things from a different perspective. This is totally jokingly that I say this, but you would only have to remind Laxmi that when Carol and Zosia were in bed, her son was kind of there, too. Her son and her mother, both of them are kind of there, too. So it wouldn’t take that much just to remind her of that, and maybe she’ll go, “You know what? I don’t want my son to go through that,” you know?
This interview was edited and condensed for brevity and clarity.
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